Is Spirituality Really About Finding Yourself?

I am sitting down with Esther Farkovitz, host of A Soul Grows in Israel, teacher, and someone who has spent years exploring the intersection of Torah, Kabbalah, and what it actually means to live an authentic life.

We talked about what it means to be spiritual in a world that confuses it with being perfect. We explored the idea that you are not your personality, you are not your thoughts, you are not your mistakes. You are your nishamah, and that part of you is already whole.

In this episode...

• what it actually means to be spiritual
• how to bring meditation into your davening
• why your inner voice gets drowned out
• the Kabbalistic idea of blockages
• why your personality is just a garment
• how to stop chasing perfection
• and the one thing you need to hear: you are worthy, period.

Esther said something that stuck with me. If we could just accept all of our ingredients, the good and the shadow side, and use them to serve Hashem, that is the ultimate. Not becoming someone else, not fixing yourself, just showing up as exactly who you are.

Transcript

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Millie (00:00)

Mister Okay, I really wanted to have you for so long. I actually wanted to go for coffee with you for so long, but I figured why not record our coffee day?

Esther (00:09)

I've been excited to not only are you gonna come on my show soon, but kind of from the moment I met you, I realized you are a jack of all trades and I was just curious about you too. So we'll get to there soon.

Millie (00:20)

Are you? I'm so excited to have you. I've I'm good. I actually just got back from a trip that I want to tell you a little bit about, like the downloads that happened there. And I want to ask you a lot of questions. but before we do anything, I actually want to know, this is not just for the audience, who are you and what do you do?

Esther (00:39)

Am I you guys in this lifetime? This is gonna be a spiritual podcast, as you can tell. I'm Esther, Esther Malga, and I started up my own podcast about a year ago called A Soul Grows in Israel. And before then, I always feel like I was kind of training for that position between teaching, learning, questioning. And then I just felt like standing in front of my thank god, 30 girls of students. Like, what if more people could hear this? Not that my words were magical.

But almost like I wish I would have heard this at some point in time in my life when I was younger. And when I say this, I mean messages that definitely are inspired by our heritage in Torah, but very much have to do with truth, which I believe is a lot of love and acceptance. And I found that most of the things I was hearing were void of that. And that caused me, and I'm sure many other people a lot of turmoil, self-doubt. And the second I was able to exhale, I wanted other people to sort of exhale with me.

Millie (01:31)

I love that. And tell us what do you teach and where do you

Esther (01:35)

Okay.

So I teach in this magical place in Itanya. It's called Midrashad Torah Hassad. It is in American seminary. If you guys have heard of it, it's really sweet. They volunteer with children half a day and they learn Lamudekodesh, all the Kadosh studies in the morning. And I got on their staff about ten plus years ago. Should I tell you the story how I got there?

Millie (01:55)

Love to hear it. Yeah.

Esther (01:56)

So basically I was trying to figure out like why am I here? Why

Raising children, yes. The brunt of it was sort of past me. My youngest, I guess, was four or five years old. And I felt like everybody had their thing. And I was still kind of at home. And yeah, I was a yoga instructor. I had a major in business. Like what am I? What am I supposed to be doing? And I had this like workshop where this rabbi actually forced you to write down your favorite things to do, what brings you pleasure. And if you were a gazillionaire, what would you be doing? And somehow it all boiled down to some sort of teaching.

Millie (02:28)

So you're a full on some teacher. A lot.

Esther (02:31)

Hold on, but I am not your typical Sun teacher. I sometimes check with my boss. I'm like, I'm gonna tell the girls this. Is that okay? Or they're asking me questions about Snewt. I am not the poster child, maybe they should look away. And I have this dialogue constantly 'cause I'm so not a typical sun teacher and I so come from the Basiaco world where so many words triggered me because they were overemphasized. Okay. So I'm coming from the opposite of a ballast chuva, but it turns out I became a ballastchuva in a weird way because I had to remake Yes, it's from my

Millie (02:59)

I'm so excited to dig into that. Okay.

Esther (03:01)

Okay. So wait. So then teaching at that point I was teaching Parsha. It was very sweet. I love Parsha, whatever. I went with my students to Poland for the Poland trip. And I was there to help them with all their emotions. And it turned out they had to help me because I was broken there. I could barely open my eyes. I hated every second of it. maybe because I was raised sort of by Holocaust survivors. I couldn't handle it. Okay. I could my my body was breaking. And the only time I came to life was at the Kavar of Reveli Melch Melezensk. Okay.

I am not a Kvar person. Let me just say that. Okay, I'm not Sephardic. I'm kind of Khasidish, but not okay. Sure enough, there I was dancing and talking and I came to life. And at that point in time, the Menahel of my son was there and said, I think you should be teaching Chasidr. And I was like, my God. And that whole experience of being at the Kevr, changing what I'm teaching, having to learn to teach was just it was a moment in my life where I was opened up to Khasidur in such a different way. And that really brought me to where I am today.

Millie (03:55)

So which school of class you do are we teaching?

Esther (03:57)

Okay. So I started so it's kind of like the first half of the semester is the intro. So who's the Bal Shem tope? Where did they get this from? What's going on? And second semester I get to my comfort zone, which is much more about Kabbalah, meditation, that result. That's kind of where I love to live. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not just theoretical. I'd like for the girls to experience meditation with me. So we get to feel what I'm teaching instead of just learning it and taking notes.

Millie (04:22)

That is so beautiful. I just wanna let you know that I had an experience at Ravalli Malekla Jinx Osko on my polling trip. And there were so many l like f that and Sarah Schneer, those were like the two most impactful ones for me. and it's just so funny because I'm I'm Syrian, I'm Spartic, but happens to be that I'm half Ashkenaz, my mom's Ashkenaz. If you met her, she's Syrian. Like she took she like converted, you know what I mean?

but her we don't know anyone, we don't really know any details because my grandfather's whole family basically perished in Poland. My great grandparents got out before the Holocaust started. They saw things were getting bad in the early 1900s and they actually moved to Cuba. They thought they were gonna move to New York, but they basically were part of starting a huge Jewish community in Cuba that thrived for a while until Castro, whatever. Anyway, I have that little

Hinteleyid, my Syrian friends are gonna kill me for saying that. But there's something like Ashkenaz in me. And when I was in Poland, I was it was like the first time that I ever felt it. and my was with other Syrian friends and they were just like it was more like a museum for them. And for me I was like I just felt something that I couldn't explain and going to this farim like really insane.

Esther (05:30)

Phrase you just said, I had full body chills when you said that because it I never hear people saying I had an experience in Poland. Yeah. It's a and you never know when those experiences are gonna fall on you. You know, I was literally there to hold their hands through it and here I was a mess. And I was supposed to be a mess. I also believe in that. Like whatever reaction we're getting, that special moment, like your pentalayid being lit up. For me, it was not being able to like literally sleep for seven days.

And I know that that was meant to be 'cause it brought me to where I am now. So I think you have to be ready for life to punch you in the gut sometimes and not really resist. I really think that.

Millie (06:03)

Yeah, I think whatever reaction you had, also on the way you handled it, is such a teaching moment for the students. And also gives them permission to fall apart sometimes because let's be real, we all need to fall apart. And I think at that age of some, when you're like seventeen, eighteen, you think that everything's so like perfect all the time and your view on life is just so idealistic. And then to see that like, my god, look at this woman who has this together and she's my teacher, she's falling apart. Like that's actually like super validating and impactful to see at a young age. So

It's great that they actually got to see you go through that.

Esther (06:34)

Yeah.

And as I'm teaching, the more I'm teaching, the more vulnerable and honest I am with my girls. I think I came in a bit more insecure saying, like, I'm the Mora, you I'm the teacher and here's what we're learning. Now they're like, What about wearing pants? And I'm like, I don't know either. Or like, let's figure it out together. And when you're coming from a place where I don't got it either, there's no one year to grow, you guys. If any SEM girls are listening, please I'm gonna say it again. It's not you're only here to grow and to figure things out. For the rest of your life you're gonna be questioning things and becoming wiser through those questions. So I feel like when us teachers

Or anyone or mothers or friends show up with no facade and I'm working on it, I think that's when people around you benefit from you the most, you know? Yeah.

Millie (07:11)

The real, honest, raw parts of you. The all people just want authenticity in this world. Yeah. It's being masked. It's being masked so much. and that actually brings me into the next question that I wanted to ask you when it comes to, you'll see how I blend it in a minute. When it comes to that Reza and his teachings, what are you learning on your own? That's really what I want to know. Because I listen to Kabala for Dummies.

I listen to David Gayam, I listen to you know, like little things, but it's not real Kabbalah. What are you

Esther (07:39)

I

love David Gheam. A lot of teams when I hear him, he's saying things that I actually just read in the text, which is also kind of strange. I've noticed a few things. I'll start from the beginning. The way I got into Kabela was a very strange story where this woman I know, she's like a real Tadegis. She invited like eight people to start learning with her because she was learning with a Kabellist and she didn't let me tell anyone about it. It was in fluent Hebrew, and we were learning for about six or seven years. And that really it chose me. So that was kind of crazy.

But then I started to realize I didn't have to necessarily be in that class to learn Kabbalah, because wherever I looked, there were messages being sent my way. For example, I'll be struggling with a question. Like I very often find myself daydreaming about these types of questions. How do you know? And what does this mean and what does that mean? And then I'll pick up a book or I'll turn something on the radio and the answer will come right at me, or at least something on the topic. So I realized once you guys are open to learning these kinds of sodot, the secrets of the universe or the Torah.

It's gonna find you.

Millie (08:33)

For sure. Something that happened to me that I actually never addressed on the internet. So hi everyone. Welcome to The Secrets of My Life. When I moved to Israel, it actually started like right before I moved here. I moved here five months postpartum with my second and youngest child. I know. And yeah, that crazy. And there's something like awakened in me when she was born and then I moved here shortly after. I don't know how to explain it, but I like woke up. I woke up. I was like, what is this world? Why are we in it? And

I started realizing the truth. And I cut d toxins out of my life and like physical toxins like products and medications, things like that. and it led me down this path of doing somatic work and looking until like all these triggers my kids were bringing up in me, and I must have a tikcoon here with my children. And I realized what mothering is finally after a couple of years of already being a mom and

my son triggers me. And instead of being triggered, why don't I ask myself, like, why is this triggering me? What is this doing? And what is this teaching me? And how am I raising him? And it opened up this whole entire world for me, which led me down the path of taking a course with an amazing Robinson who I should get on this show, Robin Eurid Esther Writer. I took her energy healing course. Okay. I learned the foundations of energy healing and it changed my life. And I see the world as

Energy. Okay. Now there's neuroscience that proves this and talks about how the world is one big kind of like field. Yeah. Which is Hashams Insof, right? The world is like this big field, and there's like these things manifestation and law of attraction. All these things are Kabbalah, right? All it's basically scientists.

Coming to terms and finally realizing things that us as Jews have known for centuries. It's wisdom that we've been able to pass down since Harsin I.

Esther (10:21)

It sounds so new age. It's the oldest age.

Millie (10:23)

New

age, all this stuff that manifesting and quantum leaping and jumping, it's it's old and it's been and it's been working. And I don't think Jews are the only culture or or nation that have been using it. I think I think there's yeah, like other mystical trains of thought that have like a lot of overlap here because at the end of the day, like Hashem is one and if you could tap into the truth, then you can tap into the truth, like there's yes or no, like there's truth or there's not truth, right? Yeah. And what is my point? Once you realize that everything is energy.

Things just come to you when you're open to them. And that's why you were getting all these messages because you were open to it. It's kind of and neuroscience is so funny because it proves it and it shows that when you're looking for something, or you or you let's say you're I want to buy a Volvo. I remember I lived in America, I was like, I want a Volvo. All of a sudden, every single car in the street is a Volvo. I know. Right? I know. And neuroscientists will say, because your brain is primed now to look for something, it has a filter.

And now you're just seeing every vowel, like you're noticing it more. But Kabbalah might say, and I don't know because I haven't learned this, but I could just tell you from experience with energy that once you open up your eyes to I don't know, I want to work on the Midah of shutting my mouth more, all

Esther (11:34)

Yeah.

Millie (11:35)

of a sudden all these lessons that are so obvious are coming to me about like listening and and holding back and letting the other person speak, right?

Esther (11:43)

ACO

note are gonna come your way too.

Millie (11:45)

It all

comes to you when you open it. So do you have anything you've learned or sources for this? Not to put you on the spot, but No, you're not putting me on the spot. It's totally prevalent.

Esther (11:53)

Yeah, it first of all, a hundred percent. I also wonder, you mentioned that you came here and you woke up. First of all, I have an app on my phone called Waking Up. I'm not promoting it. It's Sam Harris. It's just neurological meditation, which is for any of you guys who are listening who are not spiritually inclined, this is amazing because it's so neutral, even though he goes little bit far east, but usually it's very, very neutral, first of all. I wonder if and this is don't come for me, guys, if you are really comfortable in Jersey or Florida. However, is there something about

Plugging a Jew back into his homeland or her homeland that might wake someone up because for me too, when I turned thirty, I started the workshop I told you about that helped me find out what I was here for. And it couldn't have come to me had I not been living here. Okay. Same thing with Parnasa, you know, we thought we'd take a major hit when we moved here. Baruch Hashem, who knew? But it actually went the other way. I didn't expect any of that. And I'm not saying there's a rule here. I just wondering if first of all, talking about energy, if

we hone back to our magnetic field to where we belong or where we came from. I wonder if something miraculous happens. That's first of all.

Millie (12:50)

There's

a huge energetic field here that everyone knows. You come visit and you're a different person, and then you go home and you're you feel the difference.

Esther (12:57)

I'm a shadow of myself when I try I love traveling. Let me just say I love traveling overseas. I have such a great time, but I am a shadow of myself. And it takes me to plan the trip and then be there on a Wednesday, like day three. And I'm like, my God, I miss Israel. Who am I? You know, that kind of thing. So for sure. Now, in terms of sources, a lot of these books are super esoteric. So I would never recommend anyone opening up the Zohar or even I'm trying Shari Kedusha by Darizal. It's like beyond, I read three sentences, I don't know what I'm reading. My favorite book for layman.

Would be Jewish Meditation by Rev Arya Kaplan. Okay. It's like thirty pages and it's been taking me almost ten years to read, 'cause there'd be two pages and I fold it and I go back and two pages and I fold it.

Millie (13:33)

You're really like let it seep in, I'm sure.

Esther (13:35)

Yeah,

I'll tell you what I learned yesterday. Yeah, we'd like to hear this is kinda crazy and I also want to talk about this on my pod, but he basically said how so many of us rush through Davening to get through meditation. That's what I do. I'm like, Okay, after Daven, I've got fifteen minutes, now I do my ten minute meditation.

Millie (13:48)

I wish I was on that level. It's actually a really high level.

Esther (13:51)

Fine, fine. But when I when I do have a luxury

Millie (13:53)

T before.

Esther (13:54)

You should, right? You'd think you would want to be able to take before Davening. But I have my own other things. I'm like, wait, what if I want to eat first? I didn't David. I'm scared that I won't get to Davening. That was kind of a fear of mine, okay? So during the Shema I'll cover my eyes and try to go in. But he said the original Shmonas, right? Was supposed to be a meditation. Everyone knew it by heart. Yeah. Now we don't. So he said, if you want to go back to the ancients and be realistic, he said, why don't you just do the first bracha the way they did it?

And the way they did it was A, they would stand still without chuckling, no chuckling. They were still in the meditation. And they took seven seconds between each word. Baruch. Seven seconds. Atta, seven seconds. And then you're closing your eyes because you're saying it by heart, or you can peek if you don't know it by heart. Without any meaning of the words, without trying to delve into anything, just B. I did it for two mornings so far. It's pretty cool. Nothing crazy happened, you guys. I've got no expectation. Mindful

Millie (14:42)

But you're mindful in the moment.

Esther (14:44)

in the moment. And normally I'm not. Did I say modem? I don't know. Did I bench? I have no idea. Normally I'm

A very scattered ditzy human being. And I say that with a lot of self-love, but I know who I am. I'm losing keys. I I get this about myself. The more present I am, I think it's a real tikkun for me, the better off really forget about everyone else. My day is so, so much better. So I'd like to start to sort of incorporate that a little bit. And that's again, that's just meditation for dummies. That doesn't take any skill. And I don't think any spiritual practice should take any skill. I think it should just be let's wing it and see what happens.

Millie (15:14)

I love that 'cause it takes all the pressure off of it having to be perfect. There's so many mornings where I want to do in the energy course that I took, we have this thing called protocol, which is literally what it sounds like. It's like this step by step thing you do to open up your energy to get it flowing for the day. And whatever the mor there's some mornings that I just feel agitated and I'm not doing it, but I should do it when I feel agitated because it's never gonna be perfect. So

I really, really like what you said about just you don't have to have a skill for it. Like you could just kind of wing it.

Esther (15:45)

The whole idea of perfectionism I've learned also in this Kabbalah class, how it's where it started from. And it's

Millie (15:50)

So she gets her hair oof.

Esther (15:52)

hard, and it's not Jewish. It actually comes very much from Catholicism, from living with the Goyi. Maybe the Syrians didn't have this experience. I wonder if Syrians are less perfectionists because they were with Muslim the Christians, the the Catholics living with them. They had this idea of saints and perfection and now was created in dirt and sin. Unfortunately, that really seeped into our Yiddish Kite.

It just it's normal. That's what happens. You live in America, you're an American Jew. It just happens. You live in Poland, you're gonna be a Polish Jew, right? And I very much wanna go back to the source of who we really are. And there was no guilt. And you weren't a perfect mother, a perfect Jew. Thank God you're living here. The Rambam says if you do one mitzvah in eighty years, bar Hashem, you were born. So how much pressure do we really need to put on ourselves? It's it's self inflicted, it's not healthy.

Millie (16:34)

Wow. Yeah, every mother I think needs to hear this because it's so hard these days. and I wanna tell you about my trip now is a perfect subway. I think social media makes us think we have to be perfect because you're looking at this totally curated thing, and that's what I was trying to hinting towards earlier when I was talking about authenticity and how people are super craving it. And the funny thing now is that on the Instagram algorithm last time I checked, the way to go viral is to be authentic.

When you share about yourself and you don't hold back, people like that and they watch for a lot longer because they're so bored of seeing these like dumb curated things. So I shifted my content a little bit. What did I do when I went away with my husband just now? I deleted Instagram off my phone. come on. Yeah. For my trip. I was like, I'm gonna do it for trip. I can't even tell you how different I feel in myself.

Leading up to this trip, the couple things I stopped doing was listening to parenting like audiobooks and classes. Because I felt like the more I listened to all this stuff, the less I'm hearing my own inner voice. And I always had a issue actually listening to my inner voice. It was very easy for me to just like latch on to other ideas and be like, I want to learn and I wanna drink it all in. And then like I was totally like stifling my own inner my own inner voice. Anyway, so I was like

slowly weaning off of like hearing outside things. Now I deleted Instagram and I never I still haven't downloaded it back. I've been back for a few days so far. I don't think there's any going back. I have a second phone, like an old half broken iPhone. I have I need Instagram for my business. Not need it, but like I it's a great tool for my business. And so I it's not a phone I want to scroll on. It's it's like a little bit broken and I don't want to f I could fix it. I could just go to sim phone on a fooza and fix I'm not gonna fix it because the more

actually Ravel, you know Ralph Eliada or Goldwith, he has that Kedusha challenge going out. Today's message was the more friction you have towards a habit, like a bad habit, the less likely you'll do it. Like put a drunk food on a higher shelf, he said. Like It's easy. Yeah, like just make it harder actually. Like make the make the bad habit harder. So since my phone's a little bit broken, I'm like not fixing it on purpose. And that's my posting phone. What is my point? I could hear my voice now.

I was so used to jumping from idea to idea, these seven second videos, and my gosh, my gosh, my gosh, we're seven seconds. Yeah.

Esther (18:46)

And then

Millie (18:48)

And going back to our main topic of like woo-woo and and kabbala and I think the world is so crazy that there there's these apps that are designed to keep us on there and it's distracting us from what's really important and it and there's so much that we're

Missing out on even if we are doing other things, your brain is still being pulled somewhere else. So even if you think you're fully somewhere, yeah. You're not. You're not. You're not fully somewhere.

Esther (19:16)

Car yesterday, I was driving to Jerusalem and I was so excited because I had podcasts and music set up for my drive right on by myself. And for some reason, it just wasn't going on my Bluetooth, no spot, no music, no audio. I was like, okay, I'm not calling anyone. This is like, I'm gonna accept this moment. And for 45 minutes, it was just me noticing how many times I spaced out, how many times I spaced back in. Am I looking at the view? Am I asking myself, why am I not looking at the view? Just hearing the monkey crazy voice in my brain, that was enlightening.

And so we're always looking to grow and hear things from the outside. But very often that inside, that boredom is so telling, it is such an important thing to let yourself just have quiet, you know.

Millie (19:54)

We need it. And that's why I'm really like drinking up what you said about that meditation, but really just slumming down on the Amida. Like just being there for each word. Because when your brain is wired to scroll through things every seven it's like funny how you said seven seconds because that's really like algorithmically what they figured out is like the attention span for someone before they move on to the next thing. Like if you can catch their attention in actually three seconds, they'll keep scrolling.

But you have seven seconds for the likelihood of them like rewatching it to to happen. So I it's like interesting.

Esther (20:26)

He wrote that in.

Millie (20:27)

Yeah. It was I'm sure they've known it for thousands of years also. Like, but humans are humans. And like what are you using your seven seconds for? Like are you get what I'm saying? Like it's just so insane to me.

Esther (20:38)

out and time is the most expensive thing we have. It's the only thing you can hold on to.

Millie (20:42)

Yeah.

Esther (20:42)

You know, and I'm always I'm the queen of looking to pass the time. You know, I am gonna always be honest. I love watching TV. I love listening to things on the audio. I love planning vacations. I love always being a couple steps ahead. And sometimes it's great. And sometimes it's just another distraction to take you out of the moment.

Millie (20:59)

That's something I've been working on, by the way. Am I doing this because it needs to get done now? Or am I doing it because I don't want to be doing something else? My favorite thing ever is the second my kids come home from school, I start cooking. Yeah. I should be cooking before and I actually have time to do it. But I just know like when they get back, they're a little whiny. They definitely need my attention. But I'm using it to just like throw some chicken on the grill because I know that I could just make myself busy.

Esther (21:24)

That is so interesting. That is so and also sometimes you don't need to listen to them being cranky. Sometimes cooking will save you from blowing up at them. I'll tell you this. I think do no harm is my first rule. Okay. So I'm very easy on myself because I think that me being stressed, it just I mean, we're normal, we're allowed be stressed. I just know that when I'm happy, everyone's happier. So if that means that I'm cooking when they get home sometimes, like, okay, at least I'm smiling versus a mom that's on them and is just miserable.

Millie (21:48)

Yeah, totally. I I'm pretty good at that balance and I air taught I air towards the side of letting them figure it out more. Good. Because I mean it's not because I'm such a good mom. It's because I actually need my space. Yeah. Thank God. yeah. Okay. So I wanted to ask you because it's actually interesting. Like in SEM, it's pretty like standard, I would say. A typical SEM like

So like you learned Torah with sources and things. And it's like pretty practical. And now you're coming in and you're teaching them Kabbalah. You're making a practical, which I think is beautiful. I would love to know how you're accomplishing that. And I also want to know, so it's like a two-in-one question, like if they ever think that it's too esoterical for them and like how you bring it back down.

Esther (22:35)

It's such a good question. Well, let me start here. When my foot got in the door, it was bare tefila. I was teaching tefila, which I still do, and Parsha, which is very text-based. Slowly, as I got to know me and my staff got to know me, I was able to sort of like segue into something else. I don't think if I would have just come in and been like, let's teach meditation, they'd have like, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, these parents are sending their children to higher education, not thinking they're gonna start becoming hippies. You have to really be mindful of that. Number two is I am not maybe.

See, I don't know what spiritual really means. You know, if someone meets me, I don't think the first thing they think is, that's a spiritual person. I like nice things. I like having fun. I like a lot of shallow things too. So it's kind of like a very broad umbrella of what spirituality looks like. The girls also have electives. So when they see their actual syllabus and it says, Hichot Chabus, right? Hasiduda meditation and current events.

Today, right? They get to choose. And so it's a self-selecting crowd. The girls I'm getting already are into it. Little tribe.

Millie (23:31)

Interesting. We're a little

So what's really interesting to me about that is I think in my day, like I don't know how many years ago was Einstein, like thirteen years ago or something. I don't think that many girls would have signed up for it. And I think as we get closer to the times of Mashiach, more people are interested in this because it shows you the truth. It really does show you the truth.

Esther (23:52)

There's a thirst for it.

Millie (23:54)

Yeah, and it's so beautiful. And you I like what you said.

and I want to challenge it a little bit about you don't know what spiritual means and then you said that you like shallow things. Yeah. I don't think it contradicts at all. Like I think and your intention is everything. Yeah. And if for example, I also I don't like I like nice things all the time. I just came back from Italian ski holiday in a gorgeous hotel with my husband, left the kids behind with the nanny, like we were living, you know? And every single day I woke up and I said, Thank you, Hashem, for giving me a sport.

That I'm actually good at, that I could afford to do because it's not a cheap sport. And I could look at your beauty of your world. When am I seeing these mountains ever? When am I seeing this snow? Like I live in Israel. My kids haven't seen snow. Like well, except for just two weeks ago, I took my some my older one skiing. It was his first time seeing No, we went to Bulgaria. Okay. Exactly.

Esther (24:45)

Scaria for the kids, Italy for me.

Millie (24:47)

Exactly. it was actually a great like mountain for beginners. Yeah. but it was his first time seeing snow. But I did grab.

Esther (24:53)

kids all ski, it's our family's passion. I totally get with you.

Millie (24:56)

Yeah, like we're we're building it now. We're trying to they're still young, but we're we're doing the lessons and we're we're building up. And my point is like I really don't think I think you could really enjoy nice things like buying really nice clothes and going on all these vacations and your food looking good, but if your intention is there, it's not shallow at all.

Esther (25:13)

I agree.

I agree. And I actually did like this whole astrology reading and this woman like, so validating, it's a whole other topic and she kept looking at my side and she goes, the way you bring Hashem into this world is through materialism. Every time you set a table, don't make it less pretty because this is little your task in this world.

Millie (25:28)

Dormitzvah,

that's the whole thing of Sukhaot. Yeah. Sukhaot teaches us that we can elevate the physical. And I think that's a lot of our job in this world is elevating the physical because at the end of the day, it could either just be physical and not really serve a purpose, or we can make it kadosh and we can actually give it meaning. So that's a really cool strength to have and also to show people that you could, you

Esther (25:49)

Yes.

Millie (25:50)

know, enjoy life in the physical way and it's nothing shallow about it.

Esther (25:54)

It's also kind of great because I get to be like this infiltrator because when people think spiritual, I don't know why. They think a long beard or a long flowy skirt with dangling earrings or rabbitson. And then I can sort of sneak in and, you know, and surprise everybody, which is really nice because people who might be close to it will all of a sudden be like, Hey, you know what? She reminds me of me too. And maybe wait, maybe I'm spiritual. And people start to realize it's not a category. It's everything.

Millie (26:19)

Yeah. Very weird. This is weird. I just got back from a Shire. Right like just now. Yeah. Before before you came over. I go to the SR on Tuesday mornings with a frat zero. I love her. And she was on the pod. I want to hear that episode. Well, it's changing my life. It's basically like Megiro Paparsha and this other book about intimacy and it's really incredible. and while I was sitting in the class just now, she said something like, I want to be spiritual, like as an example that she was giving from someone's life.

And it's so funny because since being a kid, I always had this goal. Like I want to be spiritual. And sitting in the class, I said to myself, just now, an hour ago, what does it mean to be spiritual? I just asked myself this question. And you're saying that you don't know what it means. So this is what I'm talking about energy and the field and we're connected and something's going on, right? and my answer to myself was connected to Hashem. That's it. And it's funny, as a kid, okay, I had a teacher that was very influential and she was very spiritually connected, but she was cool.

Like she wore jeans and she went out but she was teaching us Torah from the most authentic place. And she was such a role model and a pillar in my life. I just wanted to be her when I grow up.

Esther (27:22)

me so happy. First of all that you were exposed to that. I was not. That is so special. But also yeah, it doesn't come in a specific package at all. Connected to Hashem. It's the simplest thing.

Millie (27:32)

That's

it. And as a kid I was able to see it so clearly 'cause I didn't have all these like other biases. Yes. And it's just so I was like, wow, like seventh grade me, like really knew what spiritual means and I think now with all this new agey stuff that's like a little bit confusing and ripoffy. Yeah. Like you could think spiritual means like all these weird things

But that actually brings me into the next thing I wanted to hit on, which is

What it's I the way I want to phrase this is kind of like people kind of equate spiritual with like woo-woo. Mm-hmm. What do you think woo woo means?

Esther (28:05)

Okay. You know, I

Millie (28:07)

What do you think people think it means and what do you think it really means?

Esther (28:10)

so first of all, woo-woo somehow for me has a negative connotation and it means you've lost the plot. You're like on a mountaintop somewhere. You have no need for sources, for science. You discount things and you're gullible. I don't like that description at all because it's n I mean, come on guys. Like I know that I can be very much on the pulse. I do want sources. I love science, and yet here I am believing in the mystical and the things I can't see.

And it's not a contradiction for me at all. And I think you're exactly right. I think the word spiritual, if we would throw it away, it might help us a whole bit because then we'd just be like, This is who I am, right? So if I am a very dry person, this is who I am, this is my taf gid, this is how I serve Hashem. And if I'm a very colorful person, this is mine. And I think all of us have to get to know each other and ourselves in such an open, real, authentic way. And once you really accept what you're made up, all your ingredients and you use that.

To mess up and then surf Asham and mess up again. I think that's the ultimate. I think that is what spirituality should be. Not a category, but exactly living your best life, you know.

Millie (29:09)

I love that you said ingredients. Can you tell us more?

Esther (29:12)

Yeah, absolutely. So ingredients, right? So I can just use myself as an example. I think that I very much since I'm a little kid, I always sensed that there was something more. I don't know why. I always sense there's like, tell me more about when Mashiach comes and then tell me more what happens after you die and where did I come from? And I was always fascinated by those questions. Those are things that I really feel like God sprinkled into my Nishimam to help me along in this world. With that said, I also loved mimicking

Things I saw on TV and I loved having like cool role models. I loved looking at clothing. And all of these things are parts of me, being easygoing but being spacey, right? Loving to create food. I'm not a huge eater. All these things are who I am. And I think that throughout my adolescence, I blocked a bunch of things that were inconvenient. Like I'm not gonna be spacey or messy. My Lucy's gonna be super organized so I can fit in. Or I'm gonna make sure that my hair is blown the spollowing way. I'm not gonna be myself, right? Because that's how we cope.

And as I get older and as I got older, I start to really look at myself kind of like naked. Like these are my parts. I don't love each part, let's just say, but I accept each one. And each one is here for a specific reason. And I am gonna figure out why and why do my kids need me to show up fully with all these parts of me and why when I lose my credit card, it's not that shameful. It happens. This is who I am. You are. Yes. Yes. For the good and for the, you know, shadow side of it. Those are my ingredients.

Millie (30:31)

this is a McCubal that I really like. Why do I like him? When I go to him, I don't really ask so much for advice. He kind of just

looks at me and kind of knows what's going on. Like I write my name down on a paper. And what does he tell me? He doesn't tell me, hang a piece of matzo by your door, spin around three times, right? Like all these things. He tells me, you know what? What you're what you're going through David Malach went through. Why don't you read Tlim this peric and it'll have the answer you need. Like that is the most beautiful grounding kind of advice. He told me to learn

I'm Shari Bita Khan. I'm still in chapter three. It's really long chapter three, but I'm loving Shari Bital Khan. It's changing my life. I actually started learning Tanya recently. also harder to get into, but I'm like, it's a lot. It's really a lot. I think I'm gonna have to learn it multiple times from different angles to get into it. But why did he tell me to learn Tanya? This is what I want to share with you. He told me something that changed my life. He said, You're wearing a skirt.

Are you a skirt? No. You are you and you have garments. So our nishamah is our essence, and that's who we are. And our nishamah is perfect. Hashem makes nishama perfect mushlam. Like that's the way you're supposed to be. Now we have thoughts, behaviors, and actions, and all these things that are actually kind of being driven by our ego because we just want to survive. So the biggest thing for me was when he said personality.

Like your personality is this thing that you form around what your true self is to kind of like protect yourself from the outside. Maybe you've been hurt, so you become defensive, right? All these kind of like things that we that we come up with. And, you know, I was like struggling with a certain thing in my life, and I felt like maybe I'm like behind. And he I didn't tell him that. And he told me, You are not behind. You are exactly where you're supposed to be right now, and there's nothing.

wrong with you, every single thing going on in your life right now is like exactly what it's supposed to be. Like you're perfect. You're doing amazing. And when I realize I'm perfect and I think in my head like I have X, Y, and Z shortcomings, I look at it in two ways now. One, it's just fake. Cause Manishima is real. So it's not really me. That's not me. I am the soul, which I'm still trying to figure out what that is. And I think we're all trying to figure out

Like what is it to be our soul? Because I think we're all in our brain and in our body and in our personality, but our soul, right? And just that little shift has actually given me so much self esteem. Yes. Because I felt like I needed to do or be something to be worthy. But the Jewish woman just is. Period.

Esther (33:04)

Carry.

Is Mike Drop worthy? I shouldn't decided you were worthy. Like I heard someone describe it so well. They said this world is like swimming in thick pea soup. It's so murky. It's so confusing. It's really hard, you guys. Even if you have the best life ever, life is freaking hard. And somehow, and not that we're supposed to live thinking about the next world. I really believe we're here, grounded. However, the other world or whatever world is waiting for us is not pea soup. It's clear, it's open, it's filled with more love than you've ever experienced. So I think that it's

Tremendous confidence, AIDS, like you said. You're doing exactly where you should be. You are good. You're perfect in Hashem as whole. And also, this world is not meant for the meek. This is rough. And we have a certain amount of time here and we are just, we should be celebrated. Literally just for waking up in the morning, for real.

Millie (33:51)

That's why we I'm with Annie. I

Esther (33:52)

Really believe that, yeah.

Millie (33:53)

Yeah, totally. Like every day is just like another mission. And to live your life like that, it changes.

Esther (33:59)

you and you start to feel like wow who might have really judged anyone else? Like what if I was given their brain chemistry? What would I do if I was given their childhood? Probably not so great. So really just keep your eyes on your own plate. You're doing amazing and that's it.

Millie (34:11)

Wow, I love that. Thank you for sharing. I want to tell you a little bit about a course that I'm taking. And I would love to hear if there's any Kabbalistic explanation or sources for what I'm learning.

Like

Esther (34:21)

Do you think I'm a cabalist? I am not. I

Millie (34:23)

anything, anything in your teachings, even in Klassi do. It doesn't have to be anything like spiritual, basically. It doesn't have to be Kabbalah. so I'm taking this course that is very interesting. It's it's called it's called the Birth Healing Intentive, and basically

Something very interesting. It's about working on your own like blockages so that you could have a more therapeutic presence and be a better container for your clients. And it's so interesting to me. I personally have a lot of like little T, not to capital T, but little T trauma when it comes to light pregnancy postpartum, blah blah blah. And I'm a super, super, super passionate about my job, which happens to be working with pregnant postpartum women and

I started doing this before I had kids. Like it doesn't have I this chose me. Like it I didn't I didn't start doing this because I have the trauma. Like I started doing this before and then like my life unfolded.

Esther (35:14)

probably enhanced what you do.

Millie (35:16)

Yeah, for sure. no,

a hundred percent. I like and like I know it did. Anyway, so I have my own blockages that I want to work through and I'm sure my patients will feel like a subtle shift, if I work through myself. So what's funny is like in the welcoming orientation, like all these women who are in the class and like we're all really we all have like really high degrees. Like I had to get my doctorate, a lot of us have doctorates and we're like, What are we doing in this class? Like it actually is tea taught by like another physical therapist, but

It's about intuition and moving energy and using your hands in certain ways to heal. And when you're learning them in the course, it makes total sense. Although there's no scientific evidence to back it up yet. Also, I believe that evidence-based care doesn't just mean what the science says, it also means like what you as a clinical expert have been seeing work in your clinic based on you and your patient stories and what they bring to the table.

Esther (36:07)

lose funding research into the spiritual whether zero dollars, you know but

Millie (36:11)

Exactly,

exactly. Because then like, whatever, I don't want to get into the whole conspiracy theory of the world, but there's something there. Yeah. but anyway, yeah, so a lot of what I'm learning is about like using my my intuition to tap into other people's bodies, which is so crazy. Like I was able to sense that my partner had a headache the other day, which I thought was like so insane. is there anything in Chasidu that talks about this, or is it not really like something you would never

Esther (36:38)

Interesting. Well, first of all, you know, as you experience when you see maybe someone who's gifted, we can call them a Kabbalah or some sort of Khacham, they do sense things and it's not magical. So there are senses out there that apparently, according to many of the ancients, that all of us can reach. Raf Cook talks about everyone can have Nabuah if we'd reach the level. So, first of all, that definitely exists. Blockages is definitely a topic in Kabbalah called Hasimot, which actually means to block. So if you look again, not to attack.

Christianity, because they're our friends right now. But if you look at the cross, the way it's shaped, and this is why so many tadiqim couldn't look at it even, but the way it's shaped is there's a blockage. There's like a line going horizontally. And always, there's shafa, there's abundance being poured down on you from the heavens, from Hashem. And based on our blockages is how much we get. And we are physically, spiritually, however you want to say it blocking it by things like

Sinarchhinam or self-hatred or lack of shalom by it, all of those things are blocking the shafa that can come our way. So by removing those blockages, if you are a receiver all of a sudden and everything could land, of course you're able to give it over to the next person, whether it's physically or spiritually. I have not I don't know that my sixth sense physically might work. However, I can tell you that I'm always extremely sensitive as to what's going on in the room.

Which is good and not so good. In other words, I can be in a room and I know who feels uncomfortable, who needs the following. But that can stimulate sorts of behaviors that I'm trying to leave behind, like people pleasing. Don't know everyone's comfortable, but what about me? Right? Stuff like that. Or I'm hosting on Shabbat. No, just be okay if someone's uncomfortable. Sometimes it's okay to pull back a little bit. so I do think there are languages and senses in the room that not everyone is privy to. And if you could sense someone's headache, that is a huge gift in the field that you're in.

So maybe you chose you, maybe you chose it by being open. But I really believe in that kind of stuff for sure.

Millie (38:23)

Do you feel like the more Torah you learn, the more sensitive you are to others and their energy?

Esther (38:30)

Depends what you define Torah as. Like in other words, I could sit in Parshaat Nitzavim and learn it and just be the same person, or not. Right. Or not. the more I'll tell you the Yeah, the more truth.

Millie (38:41)

Even like when I say Torah I also include meditation in the thing.

Esther (38:44)

Right. Yeah. anytime I hear something emet, and again, it can come from any culture, really. But anytime I hear something that's really like I know it's true, and how you know it's true, because your gut knows it's true. Your inner voice always knew that. Yeah, it definitely helps to make me a better person. And every time I think I'm climbing that ladder, guess what? I had a bad day. I was not a nice person that day. And that also brings humility. So I'm never sure if I'm really ahead or I'm even on the ladder. All I know is if I take everything day by day.

Really, without worrying too much about progress or whatever. Yeah, I'm definitely trying to be kinder to myself and kinder to people around me for sure. But I'll never get

Millie (39:20)

I don't even mean sensitive in terms of being kind. I mean more how you're saying like s like on

Esther (39:24)

Spiritually sensitive.

Millie (39:25)

the pulse and intuitive and like able to pick things up. 'Cause I know that when I'm like really good about praying and doing it with like a really good intentions, all of a sudden like I put my hand on a patient and I'm like, Whoa, we're going through blah blah blah blah blah and I just like you don't have to tell me, but like

Esther (39:42)

Mm, what I know. Interesting. Yeah. in terms of reading a room, I was kind of born that way. But when it comes to when it comes to saying the right thing, let's put it that way, being intuitive to know that someone's talking to me, I want to listen with my full brain, that will come from spiritual sensitivity for me. The lack of distraction and the more as every moment counts, number one. I also believe spiritually, if you're talking about frequency, I think if I change someone's day, whether I knew it or not, if someone's listening to this right now and they're driving.

And they have a lighter day because of it. I feel like that reverberates forever. And that's a frequency that you created or a tribe that you created. And I really feel like that stuff narrows back at me. So I'm not always aware of how much goodness I'm putting out or coming my way. So yeah. It's

Millie (40:22)

It's hard to quantify. Okay. I I could tell you, like, I don't know if I make it up. I don't know. And if I do make it up, I don't think it really matters. But like the more I just practice mindfulness, I find that I'm able to reach just like a different level of consciousness. Yeah. I was telling my husband, like, ever since we moved here, every six months, I feel like this very intense, like jump. Like I just jumped up and I just have like a higher

I don't really know how to explain it except for a higher level of consciousness, but I'm just like more aware of like what's going on in the world and I just had one. I just had one when I went away. So I was removed from my like my daily routine. I was away from my kids, which like thank God take up a lot of my brain space. and I was like able to have like so much comfort knowing they're like really well taken care of and I have people running my business while I'm away and like everything is just like taken care of and I could just be present and I was like, wow, fully present, not on Instagram.

Spending the most amazing quality of time with my husband in Hashem's world, beautiful world in the Italian Alps, doing a sport that makes me feel good. Like everything that you could think of Czech was like Czech. Yeah. and it came back and I feel different. And I feel like

I don't it's so hard to put words on it, but like just more sensitive to the world. Like I actually got very triggered. I saw a commercial. I saw a commercial for like skincare. Okay. I was going, they're trying to sell me that I'm not beautiful enough. Like I am the you what I mean? Like Yeah.

I and you know I'm sure the product was great. Like I'm sure it was great, but I was just like, why do we live in this world where like we're always trying to be sold? Yeah.

That's not even my point about like this knowing. I'm just saying everything around me, I'm like, what is this?

Esther (42:01)

So that is very Kabbalistic. You asked before. Like, what is this? this is for real. Okay. This is for real. I'm not gonna pretend to know how to explain it, but I'm gonna try. Okay. There's an idea in Kabbalah that you have a sphera, a sphere surrounding you at all times. Some people call it aura, some what energy, whatever you wanna call it. And you have the ability to step out of one type of consciousness, one type of sphere and go to the next. You might call that growth, because you're usually going in that direction. And that has to do with consciousness. Very much so.

Not only that, but we're always here in this olam asyah, this very physical finite world. Yet consciously, you're able to inhabit different places. So you're able to go to some place called Olamitira where the angels above. Yes. Okay. And when you do that, there's way more light. And when there's way more light, there's way more truth. Okay. And we skip back and forth all the time throughout your day. So if you had an experience like worlds. Yes. wow. Yes. We're mostly here.

Well, the massia, but yes, very much so. And you might have one millisecond we're in the highest world and all is perfect and then it it goes away. It's not meant to stay here. We're fine. Okay. But if you had this intense jump, you've actually left this dead skin behind to the point where you might look back in a couple of weeks and be like, Who was that person? Like in December. I'm a really different you

Millie (43:09)

I don't know who I was two weeks ago. No, I'm like, who was that? And you know what's funny? I I decluttered my entire house around Hanukkah time, right before Hanukkah. And I felt like I was get ri getting rid of old identities of mine. Like this doesn't belong to me. This belongs to the version of me who bought it two, three years ago. Like this is not me. Like and I and now I feel like I need to do it again because I'm not the person I was. And I'm like, I gotta throw out all

Esther (43:32)

So true. Like even when you look at something you bought, you're like, I would never buy that today. My style changed. It's not just your style. There's something inherently there. You know, to bring my point home, it's parem soon. You're gonna blink. And who you dress up on is parim. And I like to dress up. Who wants to dress up? Is a deep aspiration of who you wish you could be. You don't realize that when a kid's dressing up as Superman, it's because that's what he

Millie (43:53)

Unfortunately I'm very conscious of it. I try to dress up as the sexiest thing sometimes and I have to hold myself back.

Esther (43:58)

But I think that in general we are whether we're aware of it or not, we are constantly jumping to different modes of consciousness. And what a gift that you're aware that that happened to you and that you use the gift that Hashem put in front of you, which was parnasa, time away, nature, a husband, all of those things and you use them to advance yourself. And I think that's the point of all the gifts, for real.

Millie (44:18)

Wow. I think that's a great note to end on. I don't know how an hour just went by. This was so amazing. I could talk to you for hours. I feel like once we end the recording we'll go on a little bit. I just don't wanna make this too long of an episode. Thank you so much. I can't wait to continue the conversation on your podcast. before we sign off, can you just leave us with one message for the audience?

Esther (44:40)

Yeah, I think we said it a few times. I'm gonna say it one more time. You guys are worthy, period. Like you said, the mic drop, you don't have to do the things, especially as a woman. You know, the mitzvah deris of tfila is between the words Shema and Had. Okay. That's it. Everything else we do is just beautiful and extra. So you guys, wherever you're holding, whatever blow up you had, whatever is getting you down, just to remember it's another learning experience. Open up that door, see what it has to teach you and know that a you're enough and you are so

Loved. I know this sounds woo woo, but you are so loved beyond what you could ever imagine. And and really internalize that if you can.

Millie (45:16)

Amen. And if someone wants to find you, connect with you.

Esther (45:19)

So you can find me on Instagram at a soul grows in Israel. also my podcast is on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon wherever you get it. And

Millie (45:28)

I'll the link. Yeah.

Esther (45:29)

thank you and Millie, thank you for having me.

Millie (45:31)

Thank you. Thank you for coming and stopping your day. This is amazing.