The Birth Story I Can’t Stop Thinking About

Season 4 is hereeee and we are kicking it off with such a special episode.

In this conversation, I’m sitting down with Liat Buckman — women’s dietitian, hormone health educator, mama of four, and one of the smartest women I know when it comes to supporting women through their childbearing years. But today, we’re not talking about food.

We’re talking about birth. And not just any birth.

Liat is sharing the story of her first home birth after previous hospital births, and this episode honestly moved me to tears. We get into what led her to make this decision, how she chose her team, the fears she had going into it, and what it was like to prepare for birth in a way that felt deeply aligned, safe, and empowering. 

This one is for you if:

•  you’re pregnant 
•  you’re thinking about birth in a deeper way 
•  you’ve had a hospital birth that didn’t feel great 
•  you’re curious about home birth 
•  or you just love a really beautiful, honest birth story 

In this episode, we talk about:

•  what led Liat to choose a home birth after prior hospital experiences 
•  how she found the right midwife team and built trust with them 
•  what kind of emotional and physical prep she did before labor 
•  the fears and questions that came up around home birth safety 
•  how labor actually started and what unfolded from there 

I loved this conversation because it’s such a reminder that birth is not just about outcomes. It’s about how a woman feels in the process. Safe. Seen. Supported. Heard. And that matters so much. 

If you’re preparing for birth and want extra support, I’ve also included my free guides here to help you feel more ready in your body.

Love you guys. Enjoy this one.

Links:

Reconnect With Your Core in Just 5 Days

Join the waitlist for Millie Schweky and Zoe Corin's Core Girl's Club!

Follow Millie:  @milliedpt

Join the Core to Floor community: https://millie-schweky.mykajabi.com/intimacy 

Get out of pain guide: https://milliedpt.kit.com/ca03c82c95

Decrease Your Risk of Tearing Guide: https://milliedpt.ck.page/fec34a522f

Liat Buckman: https://freshsabra.com/about/

Liat IG: https://www.instagram.com/fresh_sabra/

Transcript

Dr. Millie Schweky: [00:00:00] Hey sis, and welcome back to What They Didn't Tell You From Core to Floor. It's your girl, Dr. Millie Schweky, your favorite pelvic floor physical therapist, and I'm here to teach you everything you need to know about your body that they, whoever they are, didn't tell you. So we had a break. Now we're back.

Dr. Millie Schweky: This is season four. Season four is gonna be different than any other season you've heard on this show before, because usually when I do a season of a show, I have one guest for eight episodes and we just keep going. This season we're doing it a little bit differently. I'm gonna do the more classic route of having a different guest for every episode.

Dr. Millie Schweky: I already filmed the entire season at the time that I'm recording this. I am so excited to share all these amazing golden episodes that have been sitting in drafts for a very long time, and you're gonna love it. So basically, we're starting off this season with Liat Buckman. It's actually gonna be a birth story.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Okay? So she's gonna be telling us about an amazing birth that [00:01:00] she had. This episode basically moved me to tears. And while Liat is a woman's dietician, this episode is not gonna be about her work specifically, but I am going to give you a teaser into what she does because hopefully, maybe one day I'll have her back as a dietician.

Dr. Millie Schweky: But today we're interviewing her because she had a really cool birth story. So Liat works with women on their diet. She's a hormone health educator. She's a mom of four based in Israel. She specializes in preconception, prenatal, and postpartum nutrition. She's helped hundreds of women, including me, in their childbearing years optimize fertility, regulate their cycles, shed stubborn weight, boost their energy, and basically, like, just better understand the foundations of real nourishment through practical and sustainable nutrition.

Dr. Millie Schweky: But she's here today to tell us about her amazing birth experience, so I know you'll enjoy it. And if you're here listening and you are expecting, or you know someone who's expecting, please go to the link in the [00:02:00] show notes. I have two guides for you. I have one free guide for a more prepared birth to help prepare you for pushing to decrease your risk of tearing.

Dr. Millie Schweky: I also have another free guide to decrease any pain you're having during pregnancy. So please, please, please check those out. They are free 99, and I can't wait for you to hear the rest of this episode. Love you guys. Welcome to the show, Liat. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. And I'm very excited to have you as a guest.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Today, we're gonna be talking about your home birth, and I have so many questions about it. So let's start from the beginning. What-- How many kids do you have, and what number birth was 

Liat Buckman: this? Sure. So I have four, four girls. I'm a girl mama, and this was my fourth birth, and it was my first home birth experience.

Dr. Millie Schweky: Okay. So let's talk about who you are, where you're from, and maybe that'll help us know what led you into this decision. Well, I love talking about 

Liat Buckman: myself, so bring it on. Okay. [00:03:00] So I am Liat. I am conventionally trained as a dietitian after a journey. Basically, I have a whole background in something completely unrelated, have two degrees.

Liat Buckman: After my second daughter was born, I decided that nutrition is where my heart is, and I should have done it from the start. So after daughter number two, I went back to school in Hebrew in Israel. I did the whole conventional route, and I became a registered dietitian. And throughout my time and my studies, something was really, really bugging me in that I felt that we spoke a lot about pathology, about, like, how to approach people who are sick and are diseased, but there was no talk at all about functional, how to treat people for optimal health, how to get people who are complaining about symptoms, but everything looks normal, feeling good, and that really bugged me.

Liat Buckman: And so in middle of my degree, I basically decided that I was going to [00:04:00] dig a little bit deeper on my own, and I have my own, you know, kind of personal tie into this whole decision because there were things going on with me and my hormonal health as a mom that I couldn't get to the bottom of, and I felt like nutrition should be where there should be questions, but nobody was giving me the answers.

Liat Buckman: And so basically, I found, um, nutritional therapy, which is-- it's an association in the US, and I did a course there all while doing my conventional training. So then I trained also holistically as a nutritional therapy practitioner, and I took a bunch of courses at the same time to also learn how to do functional testing for nutrition, and that's when I became kind of like a conventionally trained dietitian with a holistic/functional lens, and that's how I practice today.

Liat Buckman: And my main clientele are women struggling with anything under the sun, but generally speaking, I work with women in their childbearing years, so anything from preconception [00:05:00] through postpartum. And we talk a lot about optimal, uh, health, and we talk a lot about the role of food and lifestyle and all the things that it could do and how everything makes sense if you look at the body as a whole system, whereas in the conventional world, we look at little Pieces of the body in fragments, which is totally not my approach at all.

Liat Buckman: And just to bring this back to the whole home birth story, that's really how I felt in my previous births, is that I was kind of just treated as she's a woman right now who needs to get the baby out, and there's nothing else to it. There's no emotional ... There's no need to, to, to, to treat her em- on an emotional level.

Liat Buckman: There's no need to get to know this woman and the things that might be causing her anxiety, the things that might be triggering her. It was just about how do we get this baby out the way the hospital wants to get this baby out? Don't talk about my past, don't talk about my past experiences, don't talk about my fears, don't talk about anything, [00:06:00] just get the baby out.

Liat Buckman: And that is the, the component of the conventional world that bothers me, and which is why I decided to, to take a different approach. So I'm very, very evidence-based. I really believe in science. I clearly went the conventional route. I think it gives us, you know, everything we need, and we, and we need science to, for everything, like the technology and the innovations that we have today are incredible.

Liat Buckman: But at the same time, I don't believe that that dismisses the person in front of you, and there needs to be a holistic picture there, and that's really something I felt that I got in my home birth that I didn't get in the hospitals. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: This is very cool because I've spoken about this whole idea of being in a system so many times, and I love the way that you related kind of like your outlook on food and nutrition to your own life and made like a pretty major decision based off of that.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: So kudos to you. I'm so into it. Before you kind of like opened your eyes to this whole idea [00:07:00] of like let's get out of the hospital and go to somewhere that takes the rest of my being into account, did you ever imagine doing a home birth? Was this something that ever crossed your mind? 

Liat Buckman: If you were to ask me that after my f- like around when I got pregnant with my first and maybe even my second, probably not.

Liat Buckman: I always, you know, really ... I, not that I don't respect doctors, I obviously really respect them. I worked in a hospital also throughout my stage, it, as a dietician. I think they do incredible work and, you know, I think challenging cases, they, these people are, are lifesaving and we know this. It's not I think.

Liat Buckman: They are. And I have high respect for all of this. But for me personally, and, you know, I didn't really have any high risk pregnancies, thank God. I really am in tune to m- with my body. For me personally, towards the end, like towards baby number three when my experiences were really, really upsetting and I just didn't feel seen, that's when already by number three I kind of felt like, okay, maybe home birth is, is a way for me to, [00:08:00] to go next time.

Liat Buckman: But if you would've asked me this in the beginning at baby number one, like I would never have, have guessed that I'd be a home birth 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: mom. Isn't it crazy how we get, like, this brain transplant sometimes after we go through something? Totally. Yeah, it's... 

Liat Buckman: Yeah, I think motherhood in general just, I mean, we, we all change and evolve so much throughout motherhood.

Liat Buckman: We're not the same as we 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: were. I think, and then we also, like, wake up to who we are a little bit. Totally. Really, really, totally. So true. When you decided to do this, what was the thing you were most looking forward to? 

Liat Buckman: I think the thing I most envisioned was just kind of, like, a calm environment, not, like, this stress and pressure to do it in a way that anyone else was telling me to do it.

Liat Buckman: The biggest kind of picture I have from my previous three births that really upset me was, and I, I... You didn't give birth in Israel, did you? You didn't. Uh, 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: no, I haven't. 

Liat Buckman: So, uh, for anyone who is unfamiliar with how it works here, [00:09:00] or... And I don't, uh, also, I'm not sure if this is in all the hospitals, but you have to be on these monitors, these baby monitors, the entire time that you get admitted into the labor and delivery ward, and these monitors need to stay on your belly.

Liat Buckman: And I know for me, personally, I do unmedicated births. I've done unmedicated births except for my first, but the rest were all unmedicated. I know for me, what gets me through is water, and I just want to be in the shower, and they just would not let me be in the shower because it was much more important to them to have this machine hooked up to me and me sitting on the bed the entire time.

Liat Buckman: And just, like, it was awful. Like, my labors, I had to endure such pain when I didn't n- have to. Like, if I was just in the shower, I would've felt so much more empowered, so much more comfortable, and, like, it just, it, it was so upsetting to me that they just weren't letting me be a woman, and, and let me feel my body, and let me feel what felt right for me in the moment.

Liat Buckman: And I understand it because, you know, there's liability, and they have to follow code, and I get it. But I just [00:10:00] do, and this is how I, I work with my clients, too, like, I think women should demand better. There needs to be a solution, and I know there are solutions. There are these portable monitors that could go in water, and so every hospital should get them.

Liat Buckman: But until they do, women need to demand better, and you need to be able to labor in a way that feels good for you, that is intuitive to you, and I didn't feel I got that in my hospital experiences. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Thanks for sharing that. I feel like I've never had a home birth before, but I feel, like, all the same emotions as you when I s- 'Cause I, you know, I prep women for birth all the time in a way that feels empowering to them, and feeling things and, you know, not, like, blunting it away, and just sitting and doing nothing, and letting someone else take over.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: So, I really like, uh, your outlook. I feel like I could have said it myself, although I never had that experience. And going off of that, what was, uh... Did you have any fears going into a home birth? Is there anything that came up for you? 

Liat Buckman: Totally. There's always the fear of, like, you know, the medical emergencies, and what will you do if something goes [00:11:00] wrong, and I think that's the, the blanket that the hospital gives you.

Liat Buckman: Like, you go to the hospital and knowing that if, God forbid, something goes, goes south, there are medical professionals, professionals there that can handle it and can give you the best outcomes. But when I really dug into the research and I, I worked with a team of midwives who were working in labor and delivery for decades, so it's not like I wasn't working with medical professionals, and it's not like I didn't have medical professionals with me at my house.

Liat Buckman: It's just that maybe not the, the tools that you would need for, you know, God forbid, a terrible situation aren't there. But they, first of all, really calmed me down in, A, the amount of emergency births that they ever had to, uh, deal with in their home birth experience was really, really a low percentage, and B, that they would never, ever, ever get to a situation where a red line was crossed, and that if any tiny little detail was starting to look off or wrong, [00:12:00] they wouldn't take a chance, and they would right away call an ambulance.

Liat Buckman: And so the, the chance for risk felt much lower to me because I trusted the people who I was working with, and I think there's more to that in that I built a relationship with these people. It wasn't like I just sh- you know, showed up at a birth and there's a random person delivering my baby. I got to know these midwives throughout my entire pregnancy from, like, week 12 of pregnancy all the way to, I was basically 42 weeks when I gave birth.

Liat Buckman: Wow. So it's a long, long time, and I met with them weekly, and at towards the end, I met with them daily, and we were constantly talking, and they knew me as a person. They also knew my past birth experiences. They knew so much about me, and they cared. There was compassion, and they weren't willing to cross any red line, and so that made me much calmer to know that, like, if there was, God forbid, anything that was going wrong, it wouldn't even be a question of, like, let's wait it out and let's see.

Liat Buckman: N- no, you rush her straight to the hospital, and the nearest [00:13:00] hospital from me is 10 minutes away. So that felt comfortable for me. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: That's really amazing. The care that you got sounds phenomenal. I was gonna ask you what kind of preparation you did emotionally and physically, and it sounds like a lot... You got a lot of it just from your appointments.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: You met with them every week? 

Liat Buckman: Yeah. No. So this is really cool. I think it's important also just kind of to frame this as there's, like, an array of m- of home births, uh, home birth experiences you can have in Israel. There's, you know- The ones that are, like, probably not so legal, and, you know, kind of just like a midwife who comes on her own and, and maybe isn't registered, and if that's you, you do you, and it's a little bit more hippie and na-na-na.

Liat Buckman: I felt most comfortable doing it with a very, like, well-trained, well-experienced medical team who, they came with oxygen, and they came with all the things for, you know, blood transfusions if needed, and they came with all the medical equipment if, God forbid, anything happened, and they were a team of them.

Liat Buckman: So I worked with a team of four [00:14:00] midwives who I got to know throughout my pregnancy. Again, it was m- so much more than just, like, the medical checkups. Like, they didn't do my ultrasounds. I went to ultrasounds regularly with, uh, my OBGYN. But they felt my belly. They got to know my baby. They got to know me.

Liat Buckman: They got to know my past experiences. They... We made a birth plan together. We, we talked about all my reservations and hesitations and fears. We talked about s- like, they were my psychologist. We talked about- That's incredible ... really, they got to know me on such a deep level, and not only me, my husband as well.

Liat Buckman: He was in a lot of the meetings too, because they really strongly, uh, believed that the birth is an experience for the couple and not just the woman, which I loved, and I just felt so comfortable with them. I had a little bit of a scare in the pregnancy, too, where I basically got parvo virus from one of my other children, and, uh, it's kind of risky for the baby.

Liat Buckman: When I got it, it happened to have been already third trimester, so it was less risky, but I had to do a lot of monitors towards the end of my pregnancy to make sure [00:15:00] the baby didn't contract any sort of, like, anemia. And they also, they just kept me calm, and I think for me and my personality, we could talk about it in a minute, but, like, my past births, I was so anxious, and it was a mind game for me.

Liat Buckman: Like, the anxiety caused my births to not progress, and it was literally about the environment I was in and the people around me and if I felt comfortable, and you could see it as clear as day in all of my births. When I am calm, things just fly, and, and, and things are great, and I was so calm at this birth because of all of this wrapping around the birth that was j- that was separate from the birth itself, and that's why the home birth experience for me was incredible because it was just so much more than just getting the baby out of me.

Liat Buckman: It was so much more. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I love that. Did you do anything else, like, I don't know. I know it maybe sounds, like, hippy-dippy, but, like, any hypnobirthing or meditation mindset work? Didn't, but what I did 

Liat Buckman: do was, uh, I'm sure you'll like this. I did Equilibrio before this [00:16:00] birth. So I was late. I'm late with all my babies, but what I really- You're not late.

Liat Buckman: It's just that 40 is a made-up number. Uh, also that was kind of stressful for me because a- once you hit 42 weeks, you're not allowed to do a home birth. Like, your midwife won't let you. So I was stressed about getting the baby out, basically. Like, I was like, "I really want this experience." But the Equilibrio was one of the things I did towards, like, the last week, where I would go every, like, two, three days because something felt out of alignment, and my midwives were able to tell me that basically the baby was sitting, like, above my pubic bone, like, not in the birth canal.

Liat Buckman: Yeah, like, in 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: front. 

Liat Buckman: Yeah. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Okay. 

Liat Buckman: Equilibrio completely kind of got her in position, and w- the birth was freaking incredible. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Amazing. That's amazing. Okay, we're gonna get to the birth soon, but I have so many more questions. How did your husband respond when you told him you wanted a 

Liat Buckman: home birth? It's a good question.

Liat Buckman: I think he's learned to live with or [00:17:00] accept who he's married to. And like we said, like, I've evolved so much from wh- where I was when we first got married or before I became a mother. Like, this whole, like, more holistic, listening to my body, intuitive person, like, I was not this person when we first met.

Liat Buckman: And he's, you know... I think you and I can relate to th- on this, Millie. Like, we're always trying, like, you know, the latest things that we see and, and know work w- in this space, like, I don't know, wearing a CGM, uh, taking the, um, ta- taking electrolytes. I don't know. These things that, you know, they speak to us, and he's just like, "What am I gonna find my wife doing today?"

Liat Buckman: Like, "What, what hippie thing am I gonna find her doing?" And not necessarily a hippie thing, but anyway, he's... he just accepted that this was a decision that was important to me, and he knows how traumatizing my past births were, and he was totally on board. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: So he was part of your support team. Amazing, as it should be.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: So did you have anyone else on your birth team? Like, did you need a doula, or is the midwife team that you had, like, [00:18:00] all-encompassing? 

Liat Buckman: Yeah, it's a good question. You don't need to. The midwives are completely all-encompassing. My sister happens to be a doula, um, and my sister is a mom of eight children, and we're close, and she was in my third birth and saved my whole experience in my third birth, and so I just felt I wanted her there, but she ended up not making it because it was just too fast.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Wow, okay. So I can't wait to get into that. Just a couple more questions before we get into the birth. It sounds like you chose a really great team. Do you mind sharing how you found them? Did you interview anyone else? Like, what exactly were you looking for? Were there any specific questions that you asked to make sure that this was the right team for you?

Liat Buckman: Yeah. Yeah. The truth is, I found them because a friend of mine had used them, and I trust her, and so basically I got her-- their contact through her. But one of the things that really stood out to me was, like, they interviewed me too. It wasn't like, "I wanna work with you, and so you're in." It [00:19:00] was like, "We need to make sure we align," because they really strongly believe that you need to connect to the person in front of you in your birth, and we just really clicked, like, all of us.

Liat Buckman: Like, I love them so much. They liked me. Our personalities really got along, and I truly believe that that is so important. I think in any kind of, like, like, any, any profession, 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: like, any- Time you're being seen by a practitioner, it's a shiboo. It has to flow. Totally, and I always say 

Liat Buckman: that to my clients, like, I might not me- mesh with everyone, and that's totally cool.

Liat Buckman: You gotta find your people in the world, and that's why I also don't... Like, I don't feel... What's the word? Like, I don't feel competi- a competition with my-- with people in my field because everyone has their practitioner that is meant for them, and I really, really, truly believe that. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I feel like we're the same person.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I was literally just on a podcast this morning, and I said the same exact thing. Oh, love that. That's so funny. Okay, so it sounds like you were fully informed about home birth, risks, safety, and I think the first [00:20:00] thing that people think about when they hear home birth is like, "Oh my God, that's so not safe.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I've heard so many horror stories." Um, we-- I know-- I happen to know about the research. Uh, do you mind sharing what kind of research you dug into about the safety of home birth? Because I think it's probably on everyone's mind. We're already, like, 20 minutes in, and we haven't addressed what everyone's thinking yet.

Liat Buckman: Yeah. So I think my midwives, first of all, they were very Scientifically based in that they worked in the hospital systems for, uh, the, the woman that started this practice of midwives, 40 plus years of experience, very, very well versed, and the biggest kind of pull for me that they brought to me in the research realm was that in the UK, home births are like the standard, and there's very, very, very low risk rates or, and/or births that go wrong in hom- home births.

Liat Buckman: I don't remember the exact percentages, but it's something really, really... And, like, the research is compelling enough to, to, [00:21:00] to s- to, uh, show that the risk is low, and it's just that the conventional doctors don't want to take any liability. I remember also going to the pediatrician and telling him that I wanted to have a home birth, and he's like, "Listen, I'm all for it, but I can't say I'm all for it."

Liat Buckman: He said that, like, he used to be this doctor, because after you give birth, you need to be seen by a pediatrician, and he said he used to do these home visits, but that the kupat in Israel, like, basically didn't wanna associate with him if he continued doing that, and even though he really saw a lot of benefit in it.

Liat Buckman: And so that to me was real- also really, really eye-opening to see is like, you know, there's all these codes and systems in place, and sometimes we are kind of slaves to the conventional system because we need it. We need the conventional system, but at the same time, the research is telling us something very, very different, and it's not convenient for the medical system, but that, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the best choice because of the [00:22:00] inconvenience.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Yeah, the way I see it with the research I've done on safety, that if you're a low risk pregnancy, there's actually a lower chance of high intervention if you're not in the hospital setting, which I thought was insane. 'Cause the second you walk into the hospital, you're essentially signing a waiver that says you can do X, Y, and Z to me, and, uh, as we know, one piece of intervention usually dominoes into more, so when you're in a low intervention setting, the outcome's typically different if you're a low risk person that qualifies to have a home birth, so thank you for that.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: So now I'm very excited to get into the showtime. Can you tell us about your labor? I'm sure... Do you, like, have your birth story down? I probably won't have to ask you questions like how did labor start? Yeah. What, what, like how'd it go? I... 

Liat Buckman: Yeah, I could tell you. So I'll just kind of preface in saying that my previous births were all...

Liat Buckman: My l- my shortest one was baby number two, and I think that was maybe 15 hours of [00:23:00] labor, and my first and my third were, like, 20 plus hours, so I'm used to having really, really long labors, and it's not like... it's not safe labor. Like, I have a really, really high to- pain tolerance. Basically, what happens is I labor till around four, five-ish centimeters for a really, really long time, and I just do not progress, and then the second I hit, like, four-ish It, I, like the baby zooms out.

Liat Buckman: But getting there is always, or had always been for me, a big mind game. It was just anxiety and the environment I was in and the stress, and that's what kind of stalled it. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: By the way, I'm wondering if the baby's position was also a factor, 'cause you're saying you did equilibrio this time to get the baby behind the pubic bone.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: It's possible that your doctor didn't catch that and these midwives did. I'm just throwing that out there. Yeah. A lot of it was stress. 

Liat Buckman: I'm 1000% sure that that's the case, by the way. My water also never breaks with any of my kids, and I'll tell you in a minute what happened with baby number four. So they always had to [00:24:00] intervene and break my water, and once they broke my water, that's when basically it progressed.

Liat Buckman: But it was always like a choice of, "Let's break your water," and I was always like, "I don't want you to," and then they would always convince me to. Anyway, and okay, so basically with this baby, I was late, and I was stressed because I wanted to have my home birth. And again, I was approaching 42 weeks, and I really just did not want to have to go back to the hospital.

Liat Buckman: And so at one point, I remember speaking to my midwives, and they s- they told me like, "Listen, if you want the baby out, we can get the baby out. There are, there are ways to do it. There are natural inductions that we've used in the past. You just give us the green light, and when you say go, we'll go." And up until then, I was of course going to the equilibrio because they r- recognized that the baby wasn't in the correct position, and so I did an equilibrio I think about three times before, prior to the birth.

Liat Buckman: And then basically I spoke to my midwives on a Friday, and I was already about a week late. And they said to me, "You know what? Why don't you just, like, enjoy your Shabbat with [00:25:00] your family, with your husband. Keep it..." You know, obviously I had my phone on me if anything progressed over Shabbat. But they said, "Enjoy, and then speak to us, like, Saturday night, and we'll kind of figure out what day we wanna kind of do some sort of intervention if it, if you really feel stressed about getting the baby out."

Liat Buckman: And so I called them Saturday night, and we basically decided that we're going to put some sort of plan in motion on Sunday morning to get the baby out. We always joked about this, my husband and I, because basically for every one of my other births, I gave birth on a Friday, and then I was always in the hospital for Shabbat, which I hated.

Liat Buckman: Like, I hated being in the hospital. With baby number three, I checked myself out early 'cause I just wanted to be home for Shabbat. And we always joked about how, like, wouldn't it be amazing if, like, we dropped the kids off to Gan and/or school on Sunday morning I gave birth while they were in school, and then when they came back, there would be a new baby, and we joked about that.

Liat Buckman: So anyway- Yeah. So my midwife came over Sunday morning after we got the kids to school [00:26:00] and gone, and basically we used a castor oil technique. I don't know if you're familiar with it. I heard 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: about it. 

Liat Buckman: You have to do it correctly, so I don't invite anyone to do this on their own. One of the biggest things that they, that my midwives told me that they saw in hospital settings were women who kind of, like, self-dosed themselves on castor oil and then came to their births, like, vomiting, vomiting with diarrhea and super hydrated and just really, really bad.

Liat Buckman: So you have to do it correctly. But basically, my midwife came over. I made myself a very nourishing breakfast, which was also just part of this, like, holistic approach of, like, make sure you nourish yourself before such a big life-changing event. Like, food is nourishment and food makes you feel good and, and give your body what it's need, it needs.

Liat Buckman: And so I had, like, a really good, like, you know, egg breakfast with, with sourdough and a salad that I chopped for myself and some avocado. And my midwife was there over a cup of coffee and we were chatting. I happened to have fried my egg in castor oil. But it was a [00:27:00] nice breakfast nonetheless, and my husband was there, too.

Liat Buckman: And basically, so I fried the e- You have to have castor oil with a balanced meal. You can't have it on an empty stomach. You have to have it with a, a certain amount of protein. So I did that, and basically she said, "I'm in the area. You guys enjoy your time together now. I'm around. If anything changes, let us know."

Liat Buckman: And so then I finished my breakfast, and that was that. I didn't really feel very much, but around... And this is around 8:30 AM. And then she said, "If you don't feel anything within, like, two, three hours, maybe take another dose with another, like, high protein nourishing meal, like, for lunch." And so around 12:30, I basically s- like, messaged her and I said, "I'm not really feeling much.

Liat Buckman: Like, maybe a little crampy, but not really anything. I'm gonna take another dose and I'm gonna make myself, like, a protein, a fruit smoothie and put some more castor oil in." 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I'm so curious, like, how many tablespoons or milliliters they tell you to have. 

Liat Buckman: A tablespoon at a time. A tablespoon? Okay. So I did a tablespoon in the morning.

Liat Buckman: I fried my egg in that. It may be a, was a little bit more. Maybe it was, like, two tablespoons in the morning, but [00:28:00] then the second dose was a tablespoon. Then I just put it in my smoothie. I drank the whole smoothie. I was nice and nourished. My blood sugar was nice and balanced. At, so this is at 12:30. At 1:00, I feel contractions starting.

Liat Buckman: I messaged my midwives, who already came over. They're like, "You know what? It could just be early, but we feel comfortable, like, setting up already." And my dream was to have, like, a water birth, so they bring, like, a pool that they fill up. And, you know, I had all the equipment that they told me to get ready for them, and they were here setting up.

Liat Buckman: And I said I was gonna go up to the shower because I wanted to be in the shower. And I had messaged my sister and I said, "Listen, my contractions just started. You know my labors. I wouldn't rush it, but I'm just letting you know that my midwives are here setting up in the case that anything happens." My sister lives in Efrat, and I live in Telmon, so it's about an hour-and-a-half drive.

Liat Buckman: So she's like, "You know what? I'll leave in, like, a half an hour." And she was coming with my mom, because the plan was that my mom was gonna be with the kids because the kids, you know, we were at home. I needed some, some entertainment [00:29:00] for my kids, so they decided to leave. Around, like, 1:15, she said she was gonna head out.

Liat Buckman: At 1:30, I felt like, okay, these contractions are picking up, but I still, like, kind of was in denial. I was like, there's no way this is real labor yet. My labors are so long. Like, this is just the beginning, and I've gotta endure this for a while. My husband was, like, setting things up for the midwives. Like, he was getting a mattress ready in the case that I wanted to be on the floor in the living room and not in the water, and he was doing all this stuff.

Liat Buckman: And then at, like, it, this is... I got into the shower around 1:30, I think, and at around 2:45, I had been in the shower, and my husband and the midwives were checking on me frequently. I was just in the shower. I called my husband, and I was like, "I think I need to push." He's like, "No. What?" So he quickly called the midwives, and they're like, "Do you wanna...

Liat Buckman: Your, the, your baby's head's out." I was like, "No. No, she's not." Uh, well, I didn't know it was a girl. And they said, "You can give birth right here in the shower if you want." And I said, "No, I don't feel comfortable." Like, I, it felt uncomfortable for me to [00:30:00] stand, even though it, in theory, it sounded great, but it just didn't feel right.

Liat Buckman: And so I basically rolled out of the shower onto my husband's bed, which was right outside of our room. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Wow. 

Liat Buckman: Got onto the bed, and I was like, "I need to push right now." And this is around, I don't know, 3:00 already. And I... They told me, you know, "Find a position that's comfortable for you. We're here. We're h- we're with you."

Liat Buckman: It was two midwives. And I sa- I was trying all these positions. I was in crazy pain already, and also in complete denial. Like, I just did not believe that I was... It was an hour and a half later, and basically ended up pushing her out on my side because that's just what felt comfortable for me. I did not want my back.

Liat Buckman: I did not want all fours. I did not want standing. They offered me everything, and I just felt what was right for me. Got on my side, one huge push, and the baby was out. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Wow, beautiful. 

Liat Buckman: So she was out around, I think it was maybe 3:05. And the, my first contraction began at, like... My [00:31:00] first contraction that I didn't believe was a contraction began around 1:00.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Voila. 

Liat Buckman: And she came out in her sack And yeah Beautiful It was, like, out of the movies. She came out, like, no blood. She was just so pure. She literally looked like a baby doll. It was the least bloody birth I've ever, my midwives have ever seen in their lives. Like, she just came out in the sac. They had to open up the sac, and out she came.

Liat Buckman: And that just goes to show that in the past they always broke my water, but the- Yeah ... body doesn't want my water to break. Like, my baby came out in her sac, and that's when all the stuff came out. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Wow. Just to show you how nature is so beautiful. 

Liat Buckman: Yeah, yeah, and it was amazing. And then they put her on me, and literally what we joked about was, like, my husband was there, of course.

Liat Buckman: And your kids were in school. It was 3:00, and it was time to go take my second daughter to her chug. And he's like, "All right. I'm gonna go pick up Maya and take her to her chug, and I'll be back." And, like, he came back after dropping her off at chug, and then I d- delivered the placenta, like, [00:32:00] instantly. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: That is

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Actually, I don't know why I'm finding it funny. Like, I feel like that's how it always was until hospitals probably. 

Liat Buckman: Yeah. And I kind of ... You know what? I'm kind of in, like, this, like, fantasy land of how amazing the birth was, but I did forget to say that something did go wrong. When she came out, the cord was also wrapped around her neck.

Liat Buckman: And- How many times? It was really ... They, they, the midwives were so fast. They got it right off. It was just 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: wrapped around once? 

Liat Buckman: Yeah, like, meaning they had to open up the sac and then take off the cord, so they had to move really, really fast, but they were so calm about it, and I was freaking out, and I didn't hear a cry, and you're expecting a cry.

Liat Buckman: Well, 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: if she's in the sac, you're really not hearing a cry. 

Liat Buckman: Well, I was a little freaked out, and what, like, really stands out to me about the experience was, like, this is what, and I, I'm quoting my midwife to me. Obviously, she said it in Hebrew to me, but she said to me, like, "Y- there's no time for you to freak out right now.

Liat Buckman: She needs you." Like, that's what they said to me. "She needs you. You can't panic." And they put me a- they [00:33:00] put her on me, and the second she was there and I heard those words come out of their mouth, the cry came out, and, like, it was just like, I don't know, I'm crying thinking about it. I'm gonna cry. Like, it's just

Liat Buckman: It was so maternal and so natural and so everything that I ever wanted in a birth, and there were so many things that probably a doctor would see in a hospital and say, "Oh my gosh, we need a vacuum to get her out because the, the, you know, like, the cord is wrapped around her neck," or, "She was in her sac and we need to pop it right now," or whatever it was.

Liat Buckman: None of that fear or anxiety was brought into my birth, and all she needed was me, and it just- Wow. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Yeah. Wow. Ah, I need to take a deep breath because that was really, really beautiful. There's so much panic and anxiety sometimes in these situations. And we know the baby's getting oxygen through placenta.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I'm-- I learned from a midwife that the cord wrapped around the neck one time is [00:34:00] technically okay. It's actually once it's wrapped around multiple times that it become a problem. I'm sure there's different situations, but your baby was fine. Sometimes the cord being wrapped around once is not such a big deal.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: It's when it's wrapped around multiple times that it becomes a problem. And in the hospital, there's so much liability, and understandably so. There's emergencies that come up. But if you can be in a calm environment, the outcomes speak for themselves. 

Liat Buckman: Yeah. Yeah, I really, really felt that because with my first, she also had her cord wrapped around her neck, and I think it was actually-- it w-- I think it was twice.

Liat Buckman: Um, so it was a little bit more of a, probably a, a bigger deal. But there too, it was just like a scene from the movies where nobody was calming me down at all. Literally, my, my doula was, so I give that to her. My husband was freaking out 'cause this is our first birth. Yeah, so no, just like with my first birth, I had literally the opposite experience because her cord was also wrapped around her neck, and I felt zero-- I felt I was invisible in the room.

Liat Buckman: Nobody was trying to calm me down. The only thing they were focused on was [00:35:00] obviously to get the baby out, which I appreciate, right? Um, but no- but there was no, there was no woman in the room. There was no mother in the room. That's how I felt. I was freaking out. It was my first birth. It was a scene from the movies where my husband noticed that the heart rate was dropping on the monitor, and my doula then said something to the doctor or, or the midwife in the, in the room, and then they, like, pressed that red button in the hospital.

Liat Buckman: Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And, like, five doctors rushed in, and they basically-- Like, one doctor was sitting on my stomach. One doctor was putting oxygen over my mouth because they were prepping me for a emer- emergency C-section. Oh. One doctor was opening up my legs. One of them was like, "I'm cutting you right now," like episiotomy.

Liat Buckman: Mm, okay. One was doing the vacuum. And nobody was with me. Nobody was with me, calming me down. And, uh, she got out, right? We didn't have to do a C-section. But again, like, it just goes to show how powerful, like, a mother and her love and her instincts are in a birth. I didn't get that, and it was the most [00:36:00] traumatic birth ever.

Liat Buckman: And yeah, she came out and she was healthy, but I just felt neglected, not seen. I felt like I was just, like, this vessel that they... I, I don't know. It felt s- this was just such a redeeming experience 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: for me. It actually breaks my heart because I know so, so, so many women have similar experiences to that, where you're, yeah, you're just, like, this thing.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Like an-- I, I hate to say it like this, but like an animal on a farm, and they're just, like, making sure that there's no code being broken. Um, and, you know, doctors go to med school because they wanna change the world, but then there's a system in place that tries to protect us and put all these safety measures.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: But sometimes the system doesn't know exactly what's m- made for us, and I hate the way this sounds, I think this sounds terrible, but if you actually listen to what I'm saying, this system was created by men, and if a woman created it, it would look entirely, entirely different. It's just such a masculine energy in the hospitals, so I'm happy we've got that maternal [00:37:00] experience.

Liat Buckman: I totally agree. That was a, a line a midwife said to me all the time when they were presenting the research to me, that it was, it, it's a system created by men. And exactly what you said, if women created the system, it would just be a whole different level of care. And I do, I do acknowledge that things are shifting.

Liat Buckman: I do acknowledge that the hospitals are getting better. It's a world of a difference from what it was when I had my first eight years ago. But, you know, and hopefully we're in the right, we're, we're heading in the right direction, but, um- 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Oh, yeah. I also think, you know, an issue I have is I come off as anti-doctor a lot of the times, and I've gotten comments even from doctors who follow me online, like, "You're so anti-doctor."

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I'm not anti-doctor, I just don't think the system is amazing. I think the system is actually completely broken, and doctors have really good intentions, but they're also trained in a very specific way, and so there's a lot of things that are not being taken into consideration. They're not looking at us as a whole entire part.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Yeah. They're looking at us as an isolated thing. [00:38:00] 

Liat Buckman: Yeah. Yeah, and again, I think you and I can agree here, I am also not anti-doctor. I'm clearly in the conventional space, and I work with, you know, doctors very closely with my clients and things like that. Um, I just do really believe that we, in general, should demand a different level of care, a different level of, in Hebrew you would say yakhis, like the way that they just approach you as a human being, not as a patient.

Liat Buckman: I think that would make a world of a difference in care, specifically when it comes to women and childbearing. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Yeah, totally. Totally. Wow, it's crazy how aligned we are. I'm loving this. Okay, so I have some, like, side questions about the labor. So you said you were in the shower for about an hour and a half.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: What was, what were you doing? Like, what was going through your mind? 

Liat Buckman: It's honestly such a blur, blur. Like, I'm still, like, and my baby's two and a half, so I'm still in shock two and a half years later that, like, it was so fast. Like I, I didn't [00:39:00] believe that that was possible for me. Like, really, I really thought that I was gonna be laboring for a full day, like I always did.

Liat Buckman: I don't even know what I was thinking. Like, I think every so often, my husband and the midwives would come check on me, and my husband was there for the most part, but, like, I was sending him to do things. I don't know, I was, like, getting the house ready. That, that was the mode my brain was in. And, like, I just kept saying, like, "I don't know, it's contractions, but it's bearable.

Liat Buckman: Like, it can't, this can't be it." Like, that's kind of what I kept saying the entire hour and a half. I'm like, "Eh Like, this is just the beginning. This isn't bad yet. So you didn't have that excruciating pain until really, like, it sounds like that fifth minute. So yeah, that's how I pushed her out, and I let out, like, a huge scream.

Liat Buckman: My br- my husband said I, like, broke his eardrum. Uh, but then she was out, and then it was, like, two minutes of pain. I don't know. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Okay, I'm gonna ask you a pelvic floor question. When you screamed, was it, like, a high pitch, or was it, like, a deeper... Do you remember? I'm so curious. 

Liat Buckman: I think it was deeper. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: So you know about that?

Dr. Millie Schwecky: When you have, when you make, like, a deeper noise, the [00:40:00] pelvic floor relaxes, which is what you wanna hear in birth. I actually do not know about that, but that makes a lot of sense. If you hear a mother screech in labor with, like, a high-pitched noise, it's usually not such a good sign. The deeper, the deeper screams tell you that the pelvic floor is getting ready to lengthen for baby to come out.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: So that's really cool. Yeah, that's why I asked that question. Cool. Was there anything else that surprised you about labor at home? I, I mean, I know that the f- the fact that it was so quick- 

Liat Buckman: Yeah ... 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: was surprising. Was there anything else that you were like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't think of this," like maybe sleeping in your own bed after, being in your own clothes?

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Like, what was it for you? 

Liat Buckman: Yeah, the whole, like, aftermath for me, I also had terrible experience of neglect with my first specifically, where, you know, like, when you're in the ward, I don't know how it is in the US, but I'll tell you in Israel. You're in, you're put into, like, the post-labor and delivery ward, and you're put into a room.

Liat Buckman: And with my first, I had an epidural. She's the only one I had an epidural with, so I wasn't able to get up [00:41:00] and walk around until I've, I... You go to the bathroom. That's the rule. That's the, that's the code. And I, it was a really, really long labor, and I told my husband, stupidly, uh, but this is my first birth, so we learn, right?

Liat Buckman: I told him, "You go home and sleep because there's no reason for you to be here. Like, she's, the baby's sleeping anyway, and I'm good. Like, I don't know. I'm just laying here." And so I let, I let him go home, and I wanted to get up and pee, but I wasn't allowed to get up and pee, and I was clicking the little button to get a nurse to come help me, and obviously the button wasn't working.

Liat Buckman: So I was literally stuck on my bed, and I was, like, hormonal and crying, and I... Whatever. Anyway, a nurse ended up coming by chance, and I said, "I have to go to the bathroom," and when we got to the bathroom, the bl- bathroom was covered in blood, and I was like, "I'm absolutely not peeing on this." Like, and they were just so rude and disgusting to me, and obviously I was crying, and no one was with me, and terrible experience.

Liat Buckman: At the same time, I also fell through the cracks with the lactation consultant because basically, they're supposed to come through to every woman and come give you some [00:42:00] general information about lactation. Nobody came to tell me anything, and I, my baby was sleepy. It was after a really traumatic birth.

Liat Buckman: Sh- it was a vacuum birth. And nobody came to me to tell me to wake her up, to stimulate milk production. Nothing, none of that. I just let her sleep for hours on end, and I wasn't at all trying to breastfeed or express or anything. And anyway, there's a whole nother story there with, like, low milk supply that happened because of them and a really, really rocky start And I just felt like it was the worst possible aftercare you could get.

Liat Buckman: Nobody wanted to help me. Nobody wanted to listen to me. I fell through the cracks. I just felt so uncared for. And then with this experience, I literally had my midwives staying. They just st- they just stayed here in my living room for six hours post-birth. Not in my space at all, just like, "If you need me, we're here."

Liat Buckman: They st- they were down here. They kept coming and checking on me. They gave me, like, um, arnica, which is, like, this homeopathic thing- Yeah ... to, like, help with, like, my pain and, like, the uterus contraction. [00:43:00] They helped me latch the baby. One of them was a lactation consultant. They checked the baby. Also, in terms of, like, um, you know, the vaccines that babies get when they first come out.

Liat Buckman: So right, there's the vitamin K, and then there's the other, um, something else, I forgot what it is, that they get in the beginning. And- Hepatitis sometimes ... so they were, like, re- The eye drops ... the eye drops, okay. So one of them is a jab that you usually get in the hospital, and they're very anti, like, putting the baby through this trauma just as she came out.

Liat Buckman: And so they gave me, um, these drops that I had to give her in two doses on days one and day two, so I wouldn't have to go through that. They coached me through that. They came back a week later to do all the genetic testing that you have to do in the beginning, and they personally did it on her. I didn't have to leave my house.

Liat Buckman: They viewed it as sacred for resting for me. Like, they made sure my freezer and my fridge were stocked before. They, they told my husband, like, "On absolutely no circumstance do you let her get out of her bed. This is the time for her to be in [00:44:00] her bed with her baby and resting. You bring her everything she needs."

Liat Buckman: Uh, it was just... I, I can't explain how, like, seen I felt and how incredible the experience was. It sounds like an actual 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: dream. I wish everyone got this. I wish I got this. Yeah. 

Liat Buckman: Yeah, and the fact that I was just in my bed. I don't know. I was in my bed. My baby was there with me. I did- my, the pediatrician came to my house to check the baby.

Liat Buckman: Just, like, the level of... They were checking in on me all the time postpartum. And then also, that my kids were just there. Like, I was really nervous about that, but, like, they came in, and they came into the room, and I have a video of this, and it's, like, the most amazing experience. They, they just came into my room, and there I was, like, 10 minutes after delivering her, and they just got to sit around me.

Liat Buckman: I had all my babies on my bed with me. And it was just such an incredible, I don't know. Yeah. I'm gonna cry. I'm just not in the mood to cry. This is so 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: beautiful. 

Liat Buckman: Yeah. It was really, really amazing, and I, I don't think I'll ever go back. I mean, again, I really [00:45:00] appreciate and value the hospital system for what it is.

Liat Buckman: Like, if God forbid there's ever a high risk or whatever, of course I'll use it. But in any instance that I'm low risk and things are smooth, I'm never going back to the hospital. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: That's really gorgeous. Yeah. It's really, really gorgeous. I wanted to go back to one point you said a lot earlier about, um, looking...

Dr. Millie Schwecky: like, you know, getting into different positions in labor, and then, like, there was finally one that you found- I, you know, I help women prepare for birth, and, um, one of the main things that I teach them is where like, okay, here are an array of positions that you can give birth in. And, um, you're not gonna know what you want until, like, you're kind of in it.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Um, but I just practice them with you to make sure you have the mobility and the range of motion to get into them in a way that's, like, physiologically making sense. So my question to you is when you were trying the other positions that weren't working, like, how'd you navigate that until you found out like, okay, like my side is the one.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: [00:46:00] Like, how did that go? It was just 

Liat Buckman: about, it was just about pain. It was literally arou- about... Like, it felt stuck and painful. Like, originally, I tried to do all fours, and it really felt off for me. Also, when they offered for me to do it in the shower, I was, like, immediately taken aback. Like, in the... Before birth, if you would've told me, like, "Do you wanna squat to give birth?"

Liat Buckman: I would've said, "Yeah, totally." But it just, in that moment, it w- felt like absolutely not, I'm not doing this here. And, and they just, they just went with it. Like, whatever I said. Um, and then, I don't know, I figured it out. Like, I, I was trying different ways. Like, I knew I needed to push her out, and the second I turned onto my side, it just felt right.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Yeah, you, like, had that intuition. I happen to have had both my kids on my side. Side-lying mama. I had one on my left and one on my right. 

Liat Buckman: This was my right, so 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: maybe next time left. I don't 

Liat Buckman: know. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah. And, uh, I think, uh, looking back, I would like to know, like, what is the, like, goal yacht moment where you're just, like, so proud of [00:47:00] yourself?

Liat Buckman: Yeah, I think, um, demanding better for myself. I think I was complacent until I... I think until I entered this world of demanding better for women, because this is what I do day in and day out for my clients, but I never applied that to myself. And I deserve, I deserved it for myself. I deserve to have this experience.

Liat Buckman: I deserve to feel empowered, and I deserve to, to feel seen and cared for. And gifting that to myself is, I think, the biggest gift I ever gave myself, especially, and I have to kind of say this, like, she was born three weeks before October 7th. Wow. And I... After, obviously, I think a lot of people who gave birth around that time can relate to the level of kind of like postpartum depression we all inevitably entered in.

Liat Buckman: And having those three weeks, I don't know. I, I really believe that if I had a terrible hospital experience, I don't think I would've gotten through. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: I really don't think I would've gotten through. [00:48:00] It would've just looked really different. And you guys, it was three weeks of La La Land- Yeah ... but before. Wow.

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Yeah. Wow, wow, wow. And you... Wow, and that means you gave birth like around Chaggim time. That's insane. Yep. Yep. Okay, Leah, I don't think a guest has ever made me cry. This was beautiful. I want to ask you one more question, actually. Somebody is, like, listening to this and they're like, "Wow, home birth sounds like an option," where could they get information?

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Hmm. 

Liat Buckman: It's a good question. I actually don't know of, of... I'm sure a basic Google search. There are clinics throughout the country in Israel, um, set up. I could personally refer you to my midwives who run a clinic. They have a clinic out of Kadima, which is very, very close to Tel Mond, and they also have one in Tel Aviv.

Liat Buckman: So they're very centrally located, I think, for the majority of the country. But also in general, um, if you ever wanted to speak to me, I could refer you [00:49:00] to various people who... You know, home birth mamas know each other. I can refer you to other friends who have done it, who have worked with their midwives.

Liat Buckman: I can give you based on the vibe you're looking for and the experience you're looking for. If you wanted more of, like, a conventional type of, you know, medically trained home birth versus a more woo-woo type, I could recommend either or, uh, based on the different home birth moms I know. And yeah, that's what I'd say.

Liat Buckman: So y- feel free to get in touch with me. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Amazing. And then in regards to your work, which sounds incredible, and we could do a whole nother episode just on that, uh, where can people find you if that nutrition piece sounds interesting to them as well? 

Liat Buckman: Yeah. Thank you. I am @freshsabra, fresh_sabra on Instagram, also freshsabra.com.

Liat Buckman: And yeah, that's how you can find me. 

Dr. Millie Schwecky: Liat, you're a rock star. Thank you for your time. I cannot wait for the feedback on this episode. 

Liat Buckman: Thank you so much for having me and for letting me share this with the world. It really means a lot to me, Emily. Thank [00:50:00] you.